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Hey all, so I’ve continued inhaling reading the Outlander books, and remember that meta I did on Jamie Fraser and possessiveness? Unsurprisingly, I have more thoughts on the subject. :D
First things first. As I was making my way through my musings, it became clear that I needed to warn for content. So.
Warning: The following meta contains a lot of me, and references to dub/non-con sexual situations.
I give up, I can't get the cut text to do what I think it should, but it was supposed to say, "In which there are spoilers, a lengthy quote, and I find vindication"
Still here? Ok, let’s go!
In my previous meta, I talked about Jamie’s possessiveness toward Claire, and tried to untangle why it was that we didn’t go screaming for the hills, emotionally, when he stated his desire to “own her” in the first book. And basically, what I think it came down to was that he was declaring his ownership of her because he already belonged to her, completely and utterly. That this possession went both ways, and Claire already owned Jamie, heart and soul.
Well, it turns out that in book 6, “A Breath of Snow and Ashes,” the characters reflect on that moment in their relationship. It’s really hard to quote, as it takes up several pages and wanders through some delightfully complex thoughts on relationships, dominance, responsibility, and emotional investment, but I’ll do my best.
Basically, Claire sees something that makes her bring up the touchy subject of disciplining someone by beating them to Jamie. She thinks that what’s she’s seen in inappropriate, but Jamie counters that taking a tawse (a slender branch) to someone’s arse is not the same thing as beating them with fists. This brings back to mind her one and only beating with a belt from Jamie years before. The memory still stings, and she’s still angry at him about it, over 20 years later. Various twists and turns of conversation happen, and Jamie muses that he never thought about disciplining his second wife, Laoghaire, the way he had Claire.
(Oh, hells. I can’t possibly chop this up; buckle in for a long quote guys, I promise it’ll be good.)
(All quotes are from “A Breath of Snow and Ashes,” pp. 606-608, and are in order, they’re just interrupted by my thoughts now and then.)
OK, that’s the part where, if we were thinking like we would normally in RL, we’d be headed for the hills. And I’ll admit that I’m still wrestling with why we aren’t, but I’m pretty sure it has to do with what’s going to happen down at the bottom of this quote. There’s some awesome stuff in the meantime.
Again with the, “why am I not running for the hills?” What she’s describing is hair-raising, and it’s enough that I definitely think I need to tag this with a trigger warning, just in case. The original scene she’s remember is just as disturbing (if not more so), right up until it’s not; that would be the point where she begins to give as good as she gets and we learn that our Claire has an unacknowledged kink for rough sex. And, because she consents, that makes it just this side of OK. I would like to think that Jamie had already divined this about her, but to be honest, I’m not really sure he had. He’s not perfect, our JAMMF, not by a long shot, but he does have a deeply profound understanding of all that Claire doesn’t say with words. And, on balance, and especially for a man of his time, he’s very willing to learn from Claire, and listen to what she does say (for more on that, said much better than I could ever manage, go see this fantastic meta on Jamie Fraser character).
Meanwhile, we see Claire begin to listen to what her body is telling her.
And that’s the bit that makes me think she’s never truly acknowledged, openly, that she likes it rough. It’s mentioned earlier in the book that Jamie likes having sex with her after she’s had a few drinks because it loosens her inhibitions; she’s much more wild with him in bed after a whisky or three. She knows this, but I don’t think she really owns it, not until now. That they can have gentle sex and that’s great, but that she really loves it when they mark each other up, too.
I do adore how fierce Claire is, and that Jamie loves it. He wouldn’t have it any other way. She’d not be his Sassenach, otherwise. I think that a lot of what I love about the relationship that Jamie and Claire have is this clear-eyed acceptance of each other as whole people. They don’t just love the “good” parts, they love each other entirely, flaws and all, even when they’re driving each other mad.
This is about the point where I started flailing almost incoherently with joy. Because, that. That’s another part of what makes this so powerful, at least to me. It’s like gravity, their own personal gravity; they can’t help but be drawn into each other’s orbits, and the dance of one draws the other.
I read that and just about jumped out of my chair in glee. :D
Because there you have it, straight from them; Claire recognizing that her hold on Jamie is just as strong as his hold on her. That she possesses him just as utterly as he possesses her. And I still think that’s why we eat this up; all of his declarations of intending to own her are simply his way of showing that he is owned by her. And, even more, despite loving her so much that he literally couldn’t go on living without her, that if she told him to, he would let her go. Despite his clear physical advantage, Claire is the one holding the reins here. She always has been.
So, to me, this is why we don’t run screaming into the hills, spraying mace behind us as we go, because it’s mutual. It’s CONSENSUAL. And while that may make it kinky, it doesn’t make it WRONG.
And the best part is it’s CANON.
First things first. As I was making my way through my musings, it became clear that I needed to warn for content. So.
Warning: The following meta contains a lot of me, and references to dub/non-con sexual situations.
I give up, I can't get the cut text to do what I think it should, but it was supposed to say, "In which there are spoilers, a lengthy quote, and I find vindication"
Still here? Ok, let’s go!
In my previous meta, I talked about Jamie’s possessiveness toward Claire, and tried to untangle why it was that we didn’t go screaming for the hills, emotionally, when he stated his desire to “own her” in the first book. And basically, what I think it came down to was that he was declaring his ownership of her because he already belonged to her, completely and utterly. That this possession went both ways, and Claire already owned Jamie, heart and soul.
Well, it turns out that in book 6, “A Breath of Snow and Ashes,” the characters reflect on that moment in their relationship. It’s really hard to quote, as it takes up several pages and wanders through some delightfully complex thoughts on relationships, dominance, responsibility, and emotional investment, but I’ll do my best.
Basically, Claire sees something that makes her bring up the touchy subject of disciplining someone by beating them to Jamie. She thinks that what’s she’s seen in inappropriate, but Jamie counters that taking a tawse (a slender branch) to someone’s arse is not the same thing as beating them with fists. This brings back to mind her one and only beating with a belt from Jamie years before. The memory still stings, and she’s still angry at him about it, over 20 years later. Various twists and turns of conversation happen, and Jamie muses that he never thought about disciplining his second wife, Laoghaire, the way he had Claire.
(Oh, hells. I can’t possibly chop this up; buckle in for a long quote guys, I promise it’ll be good.)
(All quotes are from “A Breath of Snow and Ashes,” pp. 606-608, and are in order, they’re just interrupted by my thoughts now and then.)
He smiled a little, got up, and came toward me. He reached down and pulled me to my feet, then took hold of my wrist, which he lifted gently over my head and pinned against the trunk of the pine I had been sitting under, so that I was obliged to lean back flat against it.
“Not to hurt her, “ he said again, speaking softly. “To own her. I didna want to possess her. You, mo nighean donn-- you, I would own.”
“Own me?” I said. “And what, exactly, do you mean by that?”
“What I say.” There was still a gleam of humor in his eyes, but his voice was serious. “Ye’re mine, Sassenach. And I would do anything I thought I must to make that clear.”
OK, that’s the part where, if we were thinking like we would normally in RL, we’d be headed for the hills. And I’ll admit that I’m still wrestling with why we aren’t, but I’m pretty sure it has to do with what’s going to happen down at the bottom of this quote. There’s some awesome stuff in the meantime.
“Oh, indeed. Including beating me on a regular basis?”
“No, I wouldna do that.” The corner of his mouth lifted slightly, and the pressure of his grip on my trapped wrist increased. His eyes were deep blue, an inch from mine. “I dinna need to-- because I could, Sassenach-- and ye ken that well.”
I pulled against his grip, by sheer reflex. I remembered vividly that night in Doonesbury: the feeling of fighting him with all my strength-- to no avail whatever. The horrifying feeling of being pinned to the bed, defenseless and exposed, realizing that he could do anything whatever that he liked to me-- and would.
I squirmed violently, trying to escape the grip of memory, as much as his grasp on my flesh. I didn’t succeed, but did turn my wrist so as to be able to sink my nails into his hand.
He didn’t flinch or look away. His other hand touched me lightly-- no more than a brush of my earlobe, but that was quite enough. He could touch me anywhere-- in any way.
Again with the, “why am I not running for the hills?” What she’s describing is hair-raising, and it’s enough that I definitely think I need to tag this with a trigger warning, just in case. The original scene she’s remember is just as disturbing (if not more so), right up until it’s not; that would be the point where she begins to give as good as she gets and we learn that our Claire has an unacknowledged kink for rough sex. And, because she consents, that makes it just this side of OK. I would like to think that Jamie had already divined this about her, but to be honest, I’m not really sure he had. He’s not perfect, our JAMMF, not by a long shot, but he does have a deeply profound understanding of all that Claire doesn’t say with words. And, on balance, and especially for a man of his time, he’s very willing to learn from Claire, and listen to what she does say (for more on that, said much better than I could ever manage, go see this fantastic meta on Jamie Fraser character).
Meanwhile, we see Claire begin to listen to what her body is telling her.
Evidently, women are capable of experiencing rational thought and sexual arousal simultaneously, because I appeared to be doing precisely that.
My brain was engaged in indignant rebuttal of all kinds of things, including at least half of everything he’d said in the course of the last few minutes.
At the same time, the other end of my spinal cord was not merely shamefully aroused at the thought of physical possession; it was bloody deliriously weak-kneed with desire at the notion, and was causing my hips to sway outward, brushing his.
And that’s the bit that makes me think she’s never truly acknowledged, openly, that she likes it rough. It’s mentioned earlier in the book that Jamie likes having sex with her after she’s had a few drinks because it loosens her inhibitions; she’s much more wild with him in bed after a whisky or three. She knows this, but I don’t think she really owns it, not until now. That they can have gentle sex and that’s great, but that she really loves it when they mark each other up, too.
He was still ignoring the dig of my nails. His other hand came up and took my free hand before I could do anything violent with it; he folded his fingers around mine and held them captive, down at my side.
I do adore how fierce Claire is, and that Jamie loves it. He wouldn’t have it any other way. She’d not be his Sassenach, otherwise. I think that a lot of what I love about the relationship that Jamie and Claire have is this clear-eyed acceptance of each other as whole people. They don’t just love the “good” parts, they love each other entirely, flaws and all, even when they’re driving each other mad.
“If ye asked me, Sassenach, to free ye--” he whispered, “d’ye think I’d do so?”
I took a deep breath; deep enough that my breasts brushed his chest, he stood so close, and realization welled up in me. I stood still, breathing, watching his eyes, and felt my agitation fade slowly away, mutating into a sense of conviction, heavy and warm in the pit of my belly.
I had thought my body swayed in answer to his-- and it did. But his moved unconsciously with mine; the rhythm of the pulse I saw in his throat was the pounding of the heartbeat that echoed in my wrist, and the sway of his body followed mine, barely touching, moving scarcely more than the leaves above, sighing on the breeze.
This is about the point where I started flailing almost incoherently with joy. Because, that. That’s another part of what makes this so powerful, at least to me. It’s like gravity, their own personal gravity; they can’t help but be drawn into each other’s orbits, and the dance of one draws the other.
“I wouldn’t ask, “ I whispered. I’d tell you. And you’d do it. You’d do as I said.”
“Would I?” His grip on my wrist was still firm, and his face so close to mine that I felt his smile, rather than saw it.
“Yes,” I said. I had stopped pulling at my trapped wrist; instead, I pulled my other hand from his-- he made no move to stop me-- and brushed a thumb from the lobe of his ear down the side of his neck. He took a short, sharp breath, and a tiny shudder ran through him, stippling his skin with goose bumps in the wake of my touch.
“Yes, you would,” I said again, very softly. “Because I own you, too… man. Don’t I?”
His hand released its grip abruptly and slid upward, long fingers intertwining with mine, his palm large and warm and hard against my own.
“Oh, aye,” he said, just as softly. “Ye do.” He lowered his head the last half-inch and his lips brushed mine, whispering, so that I felt the words as much as heard them.
“And I ken that verra well indeed, mo nighean donn.”
I read that and just about jumped out of my chair in glee. :D
Because there you have it, straight from them; Claire recognizing that her hold on Jamie is just as strong as his hold on her. That she possesses him just as utterly as he possesses her. And I still think that’s why we eat this up; all of his declarations of intending to own her are simply his way of showing that he is owned by her. And, even more, despite loving her so much that he literally couldn’t go on living without her, that if she told him to, he would let her go. Despite his clear physical advantage, Claire is the one holding the reins here. She always has been.
So, to me, this is why we don’t run screaming into the hills, spraying mace behind us as we go, because it’s mutual. It’s CONSENSUAL. And while that may make it kinky, it doesn’t make it WRONG.
And the best part is it’s CANON.
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no subject
Date: 2014-10-23 09:06 pm (UTC)From:in book 8, Jamie says something like "You think with your body, that's why you became a surgeon." I think *that* along with her not taking shit from anyone and kicking ass wherever she goes is why we love Jamie so much. We identify with Claire (at least I do) and she's strong and awesome and JAMIE STILL SUBMITS TO HER. I mean, he has no control over this. She OWNS him, but they are both still capable of free will and independent living. They are just a million times better together than on their own.
Er, I'm babbling. Is this making sense? My point here is that they are a pair. You can't love one without the other and I think we love Jamie because we relate to Claire.
Also, LOL at the kink being canon. Always a favorite for me. <3
no subject
Date: 2014-10-23 09:29 pm (UTC)From:And yes, I love them as a pair. I love how they kick ass and take names when it's the two of them together. I love that they're still THEMSELVES even when they're together, but that the whole is greater than the sum of them separately. I do wonder, though, what would happen to Jamie if Claire were truly taken away again. There are hints in this book, when she falls so terribly ill, and she makes her choice not to die, but to stay; she stays because she knows he'll die if she leaves him. And he says as much, not to long afterwards. They've woven so far into each other at this point that while they're still distinct, there are bits of the "super-them" that are too deeply entwined to survive without the other.
And I'm going to have to leave that there because I'm 10 min late in leaving to get my DD from school, lol!
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Date: 2014-10-24 05:22 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2014-10-24 11:25 pm (UTC)From:And I completely agree; Jamie is so much more than just a gender reversed role!